Author Topic: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!  (Read 159194 times)

ark

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #750 on: November 03, 2011, 06:09:13 AM »
How about just condensing all the difficulties in to one scoreboard for the scoring challenges? I think it would work well, and it wouldn't just be the lunatic difficulties taking #1 every time either, we've had a couple weeks where hard mode scores were higher. It also allows everybody to compete together, but still on their own difficulty.

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #751 on: November 03, 2011, 03:58:00 PM »
It also allows everybody to compete together, but still on their own difficulty.

It makes sense but I'd say leave it at a fixed difficulty. Its the only way scores will be truly comparable to each other. Besides, I think its very benefitial to enforce a certain difficulty. If for example you set it for Lunatic it will mean that the normal mode players probably wouldn't be able to clear but simply playing it will do them a lot of good when it comes to improving their skills. I know from experience that the only way to improve is to try your hand at something you can't do yet. Whether its trying to master a scoring path through a stage or trying to dodge a wickedly difficult pattern, its not something you are gonna learn from simply staying within your comfort zones. That a free choice of difficulty would allow you to. If you set it at Hard mode you will still challenge the lower level players and Lunatic players will find the survival easy which means they can focus more on scoring.

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #752 on: November 03, 2011, 04:42:19 PM »
or the lower-level players will just not participate

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #753 on: November 03, 2011, 05:07:08 PM »
Possibly.

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #754 on: November 04, 2011, 10:56:07 PM »
or the lower-level players will just not participate

Exactly.
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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #755 on: November 05, 2011, 01:24:59 AM »
Don't see why you couldn't do both.
eb: there should be a shmup that is sort of like podd minus the versus shit
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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #756 on: November 15, 2011, 04:27:22 PM »
Sapz, The Special this time is absolutely crazy. I haven't tried it yet but Yamame's opener is gonna haunt my soul. As for PCB, I don't know any kind of score tricks here and I have a feeling that looking up a world record run is being a bit overambitious. I don't even know what is a good score on Normal mode but I'll try getting something decent off. At least I won't have to worry about survival here.

I gotta say though, I think this thing going on for two weeks instead of just one gives me better chances to participate.

Sapz

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #757 on: November 15, 2011, 05:18:42 PM »
Glad you're 'enjoying' it. :D I'm curious what progress people will have made with the special by the end of the two weeks.
Let's fight.

ark

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #758 on: November 16, 2011, 02:41:06 AM »
Worst special challenge ever. Sapz, you should let me run the tournaments, so I can put special challenges that don't make people want to chop their balls off instead.

Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #759 on: November 16, 2011, 03:06:21 AM »
You have to
Spoiler:
time out the noncard
to get past midboss Parsee, but it's hard and I don't see anyone getting out of stage 2 in this challenge. I'd guess getting around 42-50 million would be a great score, but for all I know T could be steamrolling Parsee no vertical and exceed those expectations.
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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #760 on: November 16, 2011, 04:52:49 AM »
I'm pretty sure a no vertical 1cc of SA is intrinsically impossible, so the "no bombs - must play Lunatic" part is just overkill. On the other hand, I'm glad I've got 2 weeks for the normal challenge, seeing as, for me at least, the second week goes into Thanksgiving break, and I'll have oodles of free time. :]

ark

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #761 on: November 16, 2011, 06:56:57 AM »
You have to
Spoiler:
time out the noncard
to get past midboss Parsee
Yeah I realized that, but it's still a dumb challenge that I won't be trying again.

I'm pretty sure a no vertical 1cc of SA is intrinsically impossible, so the "no bombs - must play Lunatic" part is just overkill. On the other hand, I'm glad I've got 2 weeks for the normal challenge, seeing as, for me at least, the second week goes into Thanksgiving break, and I'll have oodles of free time. :]
No vert SA is definitely possible, at least with ReimuA on Hard. Lunatic uhhhhhhhh.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 07:07:42 AM by Nereid »

Sapz

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #762 on: November 16, 2011, 09:48:22 AM »
Man, I think you're missing the point here. You don't have to clear it - you just have to beat everyone else. :V
Let's fight.

ark

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #763 on: November 16, 2011, 11:25:23 AM »
My point is that I wouldn't enjoy trying to beat everyone else. What happened to fun challenges?

Sapz

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #764 on: November 16, 2011, 12:22:03 PM »
I guess this one isn't your cup of tea, but speak for yourself - some people seem to be having fun with it. There's still the scoring challenge if you want some more regular competition. I admit this one might have been a bit over-ambitious, but it's still interesting to see what's possible within constraints like these.
Let's fight.

Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #765 on: November 16, 2011, 01:41:15 PM »
I made a PCB run!! Its apparently true that Normal mode actually does make you age faster. I did quite significantly improve my MarisaA highscore though so its not all fruitless and I did have a bit of fun listening to the music again. Nostalgic indeed. Any fun things to point out... yeah sure. I die on Stage 3 because I don't notice the presence of some slow moving bullets. Quite ironic really, apparently its easier for me to dodge bullets if there is a lot of them. That way I'm sure that I'll see them. :)

Oh and another death on Stage 4 against the opener... I'll just pull a Kefit and call it rank-hax bullshit because I happened to die on it. Or maybe I should've just dodged better. Then there is Youmu's 2nd spell. Which is totally different from the Hard/Lunatic version i mean damn... I died on it and I don't even have any excuse. Not paying enough attention I suppose. I did score a bit in the sense that I was firing unfocused for better cherry gain and stuff like that but that's really it. The highscoring replays somehow made the game take a longer time to beat so I decided to simply go with basic scoring. I still beat my old record with about 200 million so it was sufficient

EDIT:

Oh and I just tried that Special challenge. Apparently getting through Stage 1 is well doable which surprises me. Apparently all that stuff I do when I normally play that stage is pretty superflous as all you need is horizontal streaming. :) However, Yamame's non-spell. I'd love to see if someone can find a way to pass that. For me, the bullets kept coming at me horizontally at the same vertical level as me.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 01:46:50 PM by Zengeku »

Zil

Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #766 on: November 16, 2011, 06:12:19 PM »
No vert SA is definitely possible, at least with ReimuA on Hard. Lunatic uhhhhhhhh.
Oh really? I always assumed Okuu would make it impossible even on Easy mode, just because of 10 Evil Stars, Tokamak, and Subterranean Sun, but if it's possible I think I'll have to try it now.
However, Yamame's non-spell. I'd love to see if someone can find a way to pass that. For me, the bullets kept coming at me horizontally at the same vertical level as me.
I was able to "capture" that a few times, though it really does seem like luck. If she moves down and shoots, the bullets end up on the same level as you, so yeah... I don't see any way to do it consisently.

Raikaria

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #767 on: November 17, 2011, 12:19:19 AM »
I've not done a 1CC of any Touhou game, but, eh, the main challenge gives me an excuse to break out PCB and practise on that for a week.

Shame Marisa A isn't my best character in PCB, but, beggars can't be choosers.


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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #768 on: November 17, 2011, 12:56:51 AM »
Yamame's non-spell. I'd love to see if someone can find a way to pass that. For me, the bullets kept coming at me horizontally at the same vertical level as me.

I got lucky with it in the second replay I uploaded. When you happen to have her go downwards and you are close to the center of the screen, it can work if you start moving slowly to e.g. the right when the bullets starts to get aimed, and then quickly dash to far right side of the screen, sometimes bullets that appear to be on the same vertical plane will miss.

My best when getting to Yamame is now little over 27 million, but I'd guess about 29 should be attainable at that point if Kisume is speedblitzed and every blue item is picked up. I'm going to try more stage 2 and see if I can find a way to pick up all the items before midboss Parsee at max value. My first estimation of what a great score would be was likely too low, even if the player loses at endstage Parsee's opener.

-edit-
After some stage 2 testing I'd say 52 million is a good score to reach endstage Parsee at. I managed to time out the midboss nonspell losing only two lives, but was like a second away from passing it losing only 1, perhaps with a better strategy it can be done no miss it, since the bullets are aimed depending on how the player moves.

Parsee only has one completely ridiculous attack which is her first spell card, takes luck to capture unless I'm doing something wrong here. Anathema is quite hard but doable, her opener is also pretty tough, the rest is relatively easy. Tried some more stage 3 and every part of the stage is fine with a bit of planning.

This is all very exciting, I'm looking forward to seeing what others can do with this challenge.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 02:59:56 AM by Gargantuan Catfish »
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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #769 on: November 17, 2011, 02:26:34 AM »
Stupid Stupid Yamame Wall... Almost passed it. Sigh, score getting to Yamame is still sub-20 mil (highest is 18 mil so far)

J.O.B

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #770 on: November 17, 2011, 07:30:01 AM »
WE NEED TO HAVE 180FPS CHALLENGES!
180FPS IS SO FUN!

I have no name

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #771 on: November 17, 2011, 11:44:27 PM »
WE NEED TO HAVE 180FPS CHALLENGES!
180FPS IS SO FUN!

That's too fast I think.
Maybe at a more reasonable speed, although I do agree higher than 60 FPS challenges are needed.
Maybe 120.

J.O.B

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #772 on: November 17, 2011, 11:48:59 PM »
That's too fast I think.
thatsthepoint.jpg

Zil

Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #773 on: November 18, 2011, 12:12:25 AM »
 Personally I prefer challenges that are more or less doable, rather than kill you in two seconds. Not saying over 100 fps can't be done, but it's like you're playing a game other than Touhou. That or something which encourages weird gameplay rather than forcing it, such as "whoever clears SA with the lowest graze counter wins!" or something like that.

I have no name

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #774 on: November 18, 2011, 12:17:06 AM »
thatsthepoint.jpg
I know that's the point, but 180 is still excessive.  120 is possible, 180 is technically, but good luck getting it.

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #775 on: November 18, 2011, 02:03:09 AM »
I tried doing IN at 180 FPS but I had to rage quit after losing 3 lives to Keine because I was too stupid to bomb

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J.O.B

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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #776 on: November 18, 2011, 02:55:42 AM »
I no-deathed the first 3 stages of 180fps IN Easy on my first try.

Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #777 on: November 18, 2011, 04:56:41 AM »
I'm considering if suiciding at the beginning of stage 1 in the special challenge for power and graze is the best route.

Pros
~100 graze increase from the normal amount
-Beating Kisume quicker guarantees that many fairies afterwards will spawn, increasing faith by 2000+ and extra graze from streaming their shots - possibly 100 more graze from that alone?
-Increased damage means decreased risk of getting walled by Yamame
-Higher spell card bonuses from Kisume and Yamame
-One less mistake to make!

Cons
-Reduced bonus at the end of the stage

I tested the other ways of dealing with Kisume too, like timing out her opener, resulting in about 3500 faith increase and over 100 extra graze, but overall score loss of about 3 millions, seems unlikely that is made up from the small multiplier increase, not to mention the missing life pieces making it effectively reduce another million from the endstage bonus.

And timing out all Kisumes attacks for graze (granted I'm not that good at powergrazing). The results were about 150 graze over the usual amount, but I'm sure a proficient player could get 300 or more. And of course, there's also an immidiate score decrease due to the reduced spellcard bonus and also no fairies spawning afterwards.

Opinion on this? And does anyone have stats of how many point items and such are dropped in SA stage 1 and 2?
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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #778 on: November 18, 2011, 05:24:32 AM »
-Increased damage means decreased risk of getting walled by Yamame
I have to ask, is entering Yamame at less than 3.xx Power really that common for a no-vert challenge?

And does anyone have stats of how many point items and such are dropped in SA stage 1 and 2?
I do. 126 Point items for Stage 1 (assuming you're spending extra time grazing Kisume), and at most 122 Point items for Stage 2 (only if you kill Green-Eyed Invisible Monster really quickly, obviously less if you take longer)
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Re: Periodic Touhou Tournament (Discussion Thread)!
« Reply #779 on: November 18, 2011, 05:40:21 AM »
I have to ask, is entering Yamame at less than 3.xx Power really that common for a no-vert challenge?

I've never entered the fight at 3.xx power in this challenge without suiciding because I haven't managed to kill both lines of red fairies in the beginning, I prefer making sure to kill the big one. It's probably easy to do, but I guess you'd have to sacrifice some graze to do it?

-edit-

Ok, yeah killing the extra red fairies is probably something worthwhile. Thanks for the feedback! Shouldn't you try this challenge btw?

I do. 126 Point items for Stage 1 (assuming you're spending extra time grazing Kisume), and at most 122 Point items for Stage 2 (only if you kill Green-Eyed Invisible Monster really quickly, obviously less if you take longer)

Great, thank you! I'll probably have to count stage 2 myself though since killing the midboos quickly is out of the question...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 05:59:26 AM by Gargantuan Catfish »
"you never know, you may have the best strats in the world" - Zil

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