Spellcards

[ArteShy]

So, we all know that spellcards are used almost by everyone. They are used in defensive (Evil Sealing Circle) or offensive (Taboo ''Laevateinn) matter. On touhou wiki, they say that spellcards are spell or powers written on paper. They say that user must pull out spellcard and chant it's name to activate it.But in Hisoutensoku and SWR, they don't pull out spellcards. They also say, that user can't use any other danmaku, magic or whatever while spellcard is active. But in IaMP, you CAN use other danmaku while spellcard is active. Here we have another problem. Why would Sakuya use Spellcards like Sakuya's World when the only thing it does is it stops time. She can stop time without spellcard with her pocketwatch.

So, post here your theories on Spellcards.

[Drake]

They are used in defensive (Evil Sealing Circle) or offensive (Taboo ''Laevateinn) matter.

No, it's just how we interpret danmaku from their player's point of view. Reimu uses Evil Sealing Circle in IN. Danmaku is danmaku.

They say that user must pull out spellcard and chant it's name to activate it.

Pretty sure no. Source please?

They also say, that user can't use any other danmaku, magic or whatever while spellcard is active.

same as above?

Why would Sakuya use Spellcards like Sakuya's World when the only thing it does is it stops time. She can stop time without spellcard with her pocketwatch.

In my opinion, the only danmaku truly worth looking at canonically and literally is the shooter danmaku, from the enemies. Obviously in true danmaku battles the opponents don't fight closely and beat each other physically (often), no? Yeah sure if you get close enough you can hit 'em but you're not going to find that too often, I would think.

[Esoterica]

same as above?.

Quoting the wiki:

What Spell Cards (スペルカード) are and how they actually work is not known at this time, but they appear to play an important role in casting powerful character-specific magic. During a Spell Card trance, the user's offensive and defensive capabilities appear to increase greatly. In some cases, the user becomes completely invincible for the duration of the trance. However, the user may only cast the spell that was specified by the Spell Card until the trance ends, limiting its overall usefulness.

Couldn't find anything about the chanting, haven't heard that before either.

[ArteShy]

Why would then characters pull out the spellcard in IaMP and move their mouths?

[Drake]

That wiki quote is basically speculation, though. Even quoting something from the wiki isn't really a source if there isn't any actual basis for the claim :I

IaMP has the spell declaration as an aspect of the game, they're more the equivalent of supers for the purpose of the game, and not for the purpose of sticking to the lolvaguecanonelements. Even though the game was supervised by ZUN, I kind of doubt he'd tell them DON'T MAKE THEM MOVE THEIR MOUTHS AAAA when it comes to something so simple. They don't pull out cards and whatever in SWR and Soku, I don't see why it's a huge point of interest. Oh noes an extraordinarily minor inconsistency in a game not even made by ZUN. End of world.

[Sabino]

So, we all know that spellcards  (ry

Possible ansewers:
1. It's a ftg game
2. Refer to a similar question in the Misc questions thread about the specifics of the spell cards, but...
I think they're "declaring" the card that they are using, rather than chanting anything. (Opponent must know a spell card was used according to the rules, and physically "showing" the card is not included in the "declaration" since the card or whatever is only a pact.)

Also:

Why would then characters pull out the spellcard in IaMP and move their mouths?

From all that's been said so far...
"Why can't they?"
They can choose any sort of way to notify their opponent of the card declaration so nothing prohibits them from pulling out cards and moving their mouths.

[ArteShy]

Spellcard duels seem really like some Medieval tournament. I thought it's just fight for survival rather than challenging others.

[OkashiiKisei]

Spellcard duels seem really like some Medieval tournament. I thought it's just fight for survival rather than challenging others.

Well the entire point of spellcard duels is to solve conflicts without causing grave wounds or death. Danmaku hurts and it wears you down, but it doesn't damage your body too much and it defiantly can't kill you. Spellcard duels can be described as 'games', really. A possible reason why Reimu and Marisa pick up so much fights before getting on with the plot is because it's fun and not really dangerous (until you reach the final/extra battle, where the outcome of the match may decide what the foe will do to you and/or Gensokyo).

What I really want to know about the fighter game battle system is why the likes of Youmu, Sakuya, Komachi, Alice, Iku, Tenshi etc. are allowed to use sharp weaponry in supposedly 'safe, non-lethal duels'. No matter how much the aforementioned slash and drill up their opponent said opponent only suffers from fatigue and torn clothing after the match. Do weaponry get enchanted with a 'safety lock' during spellcard duels so they won't kill the foe? Does the safety cause the weaponry to become completely blunt, or do they just pass right through the foe without leaving a wound but still letting the enemy feel the pain? It is hard to imagine what that would look like. It'd be like the weapons are incorporeal or ghost-like...

[Drake]

Now you're just trying to apply logic to the series, you already know that doesn't work lol

[orinrin]

Now you're just trying to apply logic to the series, you already know that doesn't work lol

[KrackoCloud]

I have no basis for this, but here's a theory.

Danmaku is like combat sports. Combat sports are pretty much martial arts in game form. It's got rules, and is generally less dangerous.
There are two types of danmaku.
Danmaku as a part of the danmaku system is what we generally see in the shooters. It's bullet/laser based, must be dodgeable, and is not lethal. There are rules.
Danmaku as a part of magic and magical battle, however, is a different story. Not bound by the rules of the danmaku system, attacks are more varied (can be physical attacks, more usage of innate/youkai abilities, not in bullet form) and much more potent. This is a real fight.

Makes me suspect that danmaku spellcards are actually modified versions of *real* spellcards, specially made to be more mesmeric but also dodgeable. Real spells are like protagonist bombs/spellcards, and stuff you might see in the fighers that obviously don't look like danmaku (Mishaguji) or should be inescapable (Royal Flare).

Maybe. This theory obviously has its own inconsistencies, but I'm just putting this out here as a thought.

[ArteShy]

So the kunais that Ran and Babaa shoot are just danmaku in a shape of kunai?

[Sen]

everything in gensokyo is danmaku


EVERYTHING

[ArteShy]

Maybe Youmu's sword is danmaku in shape of sword. Same with Sakuya's knifes and Cirno's icicles and Reimu's amulets etc.

[Tengukami]

Even the shrines, the tea, the food, the rain, the trees - it's all danmaku people!!!!!

[8lue Wizard]

Even the shrines, the tea, the food, the rain, the trees - it's all danmaku people!!!!!

OBJECTION! *dramatic point*

If people were made from danmaku, they would destroy their own hitboxes instantly.

[ArteShy]

OBJECTION! *dramatic point*

If people were made from danmaku, they would destroy their own hitboxes instantly.

*hammer bang* Objection Overruled!

[Tengukami]

OBJECTION! *dramatic point*

If people were made from danmaku, they would destroy their own hitboxes instantly.

I forgot my comma - it should read "it's all danmaku, people!"

Move to have the prosecutor's remarks stricken from the record.

[Esoterica]

Why would then characters pull out the spellcard in IaMP and move their mouths?

They don't move their mouths.  Lots of characters open them, but if anything it's just a pose or possibly a battle cry.  If I remember right, Yuyuko and Yukari don't open their mouths, for example.

Maybe Youmu's sword is danmaku in shape of sword. Same with Sakuya's knifes and Cirno's icicles and Reimu's amulets etc.

Youmu's sword has had me wondering; danmaku duels are supposed to be nonlethal, and here she has swords that can cut any physical or nonphysical object.  Cutting things with extremely sharp swords while moving at a quarter of the speed of light doesn't sound very nonlethal to me.

[orinrin]

Pretty sure getting hit a by a train isn't nonlethal.

[KrackoCloud]

Pretty sure getting hit a by a train isn't nonlethal.

Which is why it was only used in the fighters - I meant to denote that the fighters are not danmaku system battles, but simply battles, which is why physical attacks are allowed, and you get to do stuff like run people over with trains or have them fed on by Mishaguji.

So the kunais that Ran and Babaa shoot are just danmaku in a shape of kunai?

Well, throwing knives everywhere in the first place is dangerous, yet it's allowed in the danmaku system game, which I believe is supposed to be the more peaceful way to resolve conflict... Even though a knife could hit quite easily you square in the chest or something. So maybe it is magic in the shape of an item? I don't know. There's an inconsistency for you.

[Drake]

Bullets that represent physical objects are called Fractal-type danmaku. These are not literal physical objects; they're simple danmaku like everything else that are molded into a shape. Stars, kunai, knives, yin-yang orbs, amulets, etc.

read moar written wurks

[Esoterica]

Bullets that represent physical objects are called Fractal-type danmaku. These are not literal physical objects; they're simple danmaku like everything else that are molded into a shape. Stars, kunai, knives, yin-yang orbs, amulets, etc.

read moar written wurks

okay but what about roukanken and hakurouken

Or...Youmu wields sword-shaped bullets as melee weapons? :V

[KrackoCloud]

okay but what about roukanken and hakurouken

Or...Youmu wields sword-shaped bullets as melee weapons? :V

If you're talking about the shooters, she's only spawning bullets from it, it's not like she's actually trying to cut the opponent with her sword, right? So maybe it's allowed.

[Drake]

yukari hits you with a parasol and fan, reimu and sanae use a gohei, marisa uses a broom, patchouli uses a book, alice uses stabby dolls, aya has a fan, komachi has a scythe

what's your point

[KrackoCloud]

Melee attacks are only in the fighters, which might mean that the battles we see in those games aren't the same as danmaku battles. I mean, they never really use melee in the shooters.

[orinrin]

Meiling kicks you in StB.


Edit: inb4stbisntashmup

[Sabino]

So from all that's said this would incorporate everyone's ideas very nicely.

[Esoterica]

Meiling kicks you in StB.


Edit: inb4stbisntashmup

Youmu also directly slashes right at Aya in StB as well.

Mima tackles you in SoEW.

Kogasa will deliberately tackle you if you try to go above her during her rain card.

Lots of characters will attempt to melee you in the shmups, it's namely the safety of "Youmu swings two extremely sharp and lethal swords at extremely high and lethal speeds in what's supposed to be a nonlethal duel" that's bugging me.

[Drake]

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Youmu_Konpaku

Pretty sure it never says they're actually lethal swords! Even if you'd think a sword would be lethal, Hakurouken is definitely not, and Roukanken just makes ghosts receive enlightenment/they disappear, so yeah.