Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F (Read 513399 times)

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #240 on:** August 09, 2018, 02:41:47 AM »

Quote from: Rinnie on August 09, 2018, 12:02:59 AM

By
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Full Power Ryujin-sama you mean Dragon God at 2400 (not 12800)
?

Yeah, that's what I meant. Thanks for posting

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stats. The weaknesses are higher than I thought they were, that explains the damage I'm seeing. I can

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with Tenshi's World Creation Press with Murakumo's Blessing, max buffs, and a DEF debuff, but it looks like even if I were to try the strongest Start of Heavenly Demise in my party, I cannot do any better than a 2-shot. That's too bad, ah well.

I've done a few runs now to get a feel for its AI, so far

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Murakumo appears to take more turns to revive an Arm each time it's defeated. I haven't paid attention to if there's a cap or if it's +1 turn every time it's revived, or if it's a nonlinear increase. My present strategy has been to demolish the Right Arm with Tenshi, then work on Murakumo with her, with the intent of using Iku + Satori to PAR lock the Left Arm and use Warrior Momiji to deal with it using Explosive Flame Sword as the final step in the battle. My original strategy was to reduce the damage of the full power counter as much as possible using Elementalist Rumia, Strategist, Dragon God's Power, and 500 SPI/DRK affinity on everyone, but while the full power counter is reasonably damaging this way, it's still too much to withstand all of the attacks from Murakumo and its arms all at once in addition. On the other hand, this strategy means I can attack Murakumo freely when the Right Arm is down because the counter is fairly tame, even Tenshi can take two hits. In my best run so far, I was able to get Murakumo down to about 40% of its HP (Tenshi can take off about 10% in one hit with all buffs + a DEF debuff), but I had foolishly switched in a character with 85 MP in the frontline only for them to be victimized by Yakumo's Futsu no Mitama no Tsurugi, seeing it restore 532m HP. That's 42% of its HP, so it appears that the attack heals 1% per 1 MP drained. I suspect that it's used as part of a set AI behavior like the enhanced 20f Murakumo, I need to review the recording and count its turns to see if this is the case or not. In the end, I ended up seeing two characters defeated by the Left Arm's Shining Arrows from the Sky because I started running out of MP on Rumia and Sanae, my primary healers. Rumia is especially important because she's my only MT healer for dealing with Murakumo's counter, discounting Enhancer Keine. MP is the biggest issue in the fight due to Murakumo's MP draining attacks and the sheer length of the fight, if there's any alterations to be made to my current strategy it's toward figuring out how to shorten it.

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has my new vote for toughest boss in the game. There's a lot of random elements to it that cannot be avoided, and troublesome moves like Black Universe and Time-Space Warp.

I started writing before you posted

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stats, thanks for posting those too. So it remains neutral at worst to NTR throughout the entire fight. Looks like Tenshi can possibly solo it with some MP maintenance. Very convenient to have that kind of information beforehand instead of going through the fight without being able to plan ahead, that's a big help.

Monothemeerp · « **Reply #241 on:** August 09, 2018, 08:39:55 AM »

Quote from: Arcvasti on August 08, 2018, 11:37:34 PM

But getting 400 BP on Nazrin is just soul-crushing, especially since getting Byakuren is the only reason to fish Nazrin out of the trash can.

While the Byakuren part is very true, with a good bit of library points in magic, high power equipment, levels in Gold Rush and level up points in Magic, Nazrin can deal a great bit of damage to enemies (and OHKO PHY-weak ones and then chain extra attack off of them) on 7F-9F, which is what I've been doing the last two times I opened up the game (I'm right after Iku, btw).

It's wack how I've played this main game at least like, four or five times now and am still finding new things. For example, full mag Eirin actually makes a great mob clearer for 7F-9F because she has a CLD AoE (which is also what makes Nitori a monster on this floor) and MYS for those weird creepy plants. Also, I'm finally starting to properly utilize Satori and she's an absolute blessing when done right.

Also Hina is still god. Keeping her in my lineup and just not updating my team composition beyond the most basic resistance items for boss fights and just debuffing everything with her works stupidly well.

I'm gonna be tackling 9F next, so we'll see how that goes for me this time. I remember Calamity Four 9F Tenshi being pretty amusing, the same goes for that one draft run I had where I used Charge as a joke and then saw Renko survive Tenshi's buff-removal slash up until the point where I just let Renko stock up on SPI resistance, buff the whole party and have Nazrin sub in as a healer to keep her up while the rest of the team pummeled her and no one died at all. That to me was one of my favorite LoT2 moments (which involved a NG+).

Libra · « **Reply #242 on:** August 09, 2018, 12:41:05 PM »

Defeated the last boss of the IC on 640f: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKfqtpw4mYs& (this fight is so RNG :V)

Serela · « **Reply #243 on:** August 09, 2018, 01:11:22 PM »

Congrats Libra! Reminds me I need to continue my corridor trek. I'm on ~436F but I'm lv2200, so I can get towards 600F fine... I don't have plans for quite awhile today, so I think I'll slam out a lot of corridor.

Quote from: Monothemeerp on August 09, 2018, 08:39:55 AM

Also Hina is still god. Keeping her in my lineup and just not updating my team composition beyond the most basic resistance items for boss fights and just debuffing everything with her works stupidly well.

Seriously. Until many late bosses got more resistant, Hina solidly earned a spot in my party purely to land debuffs and swap out. Although honestly, it was bad planning; I swapped her to Herbalist insanely late but I should have been running her as it the whole time just so she had a little more to do. Dead weight on resistant bosses, nothing to do but swap after landing the debuff since it's already so strong... oops :V

EDIT:I believe the 450F Corridor boss is guaranteed to use Magnificent Darkness at HP intervals, because I fought it while massively overleveled and like 5 of it's 6 moves have just been that over and over.

DarkAtma · « **Reply #244 on:** August 09, 2018, 04:41:22 PM »

Is there any good grinding spot on 29F? i am trying to kill the three grayed out maribel summons,yet i cant find a suitable grinding spot beside spaming leavetin on some B11F enemies

EDIT

is this supposed to happen? i swear i only got 1-2 enemies before i applied the 1.105 patch,did it fixed the dragon god passives?

Serela · « **Reply #245 on:** August 09, 2018, 05:30:22 PM »

Quote from: DarkAtma on August 09, 2018, 04:41:22 PM

Is there any good grinding spot on 29F? i am trying to kill the three grayed out maribel summons,yet i cant find a suitable grinding spot beside spaming leavetin on some B11F enemies

Not really, just use anywhere. If you've killed any of the bosses (the two heroes is easiest) you should go grind metal kedamas on 30F instead though, that's miles and miles away the best EXP until you're ready to grind b11f.

The dragon god passives were fixed in the patch before this one, and you only get 1-2 enemies in the portion of b11f that was available in the previous patch; the new areas are the ones drowning in enemies. That's the prime grinding spot from like, lv1200 to lv... uh... 2400+? >.>;; Far enough to finish everything except post-endgame corridor loops. It gets faster as you become able to kill them in less moves, and you want a bajillion of their gem/jewel drops anyway. You actually might be able to farm it earlier if you use big buffs and boosts on Flandre and cast Lavaeteinn.

DarkAtma · « **Reply #246 on:** August 09, 2018, 05:49:28 PM »

Quote from: Serela on August 09, 2018, 05:30:22 PM

Not really, just use anywhere. If you've killed any of the bosses (the two heroes is easiest) you should go grind metal kedamas on 30F instead though, that's miles and miles away the best EXP until you're ready to grind b11f.

The dragon god passives were fixed in the patch before this one, and you only get 1-2 enemies in the portion of b11f that was available in the previous patch; the new areas are the ones drowning in enemies. That's the prime grinding spot from like, lv1200 to lv... uh... 2400+? >.>;; Far enough to finish everything except post-endgame corridor loops. It gets faster as you become able to kill them in less moves, and you want a bajillion of their gem/jewel drops anyway. You actually might be able to farm it earlier if you use big buffs and boosts on Flandre and cast Lavaeteinn.

Wait,i can access 30F? yes i did killed the hero duo,i will try finding the staircase or anything for now must have missed it

Serela · « **Reply #247 on:** August 09, 2018, 06:22:46 PM »

Yeah, you should be able to reach the stairs before killing any bosses on 29f- just there's a rock in the way that wants you to beat a fight. Happy trails~

For kedama farming, you'll need Aya (seriously- they're -fast- and usually run) and someone with either Piercing Attack or a 90%-grade defense ignore skill, or a good instant death skill. Equip them with some accuracy boost gear. At your level you might consider running away from non-kedama fights, which means Chen in the back row for TP penalty reduction. And last you just need to know the two spots they have a high spawn rate... which is somewhere in the previous thread z.z I'm lazyyyy

DarkAtma · « **Reply #248 on:** August 09, 2018, 06:24:17 PM »

Yeah there was a tiny bit i didnt decided to explore on the east side and then poof,a long trek to get to 30F

now to see if i can find a elusive golden kedama and prepare accordingly,hopefully flandre can one shot it

Serela · « **Reply #249 on:** August 09, 2018, 07:04:05 PM »

Alright, this is the two spots with high metal kedama spawn rates. Outlined in green on top/bottom. (the red blip in the top is just my location indicator)

As a warning tho', even though Starbow Break pierces a good amount of defense, I'm not sure Flandre can actually damage these things without buffs/debuffs, which you don't have time to apply. You'll really need one of the things I listed earlier. If you don't have any in your party, I'd Awaken Shou, make her an Appraiser, put on +ACC gear and an Angel Slime Hat, and use Radiant Treasure Gun for lots of bonus exp/money.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #250 on:** August 10, 2018, 02:36:40 AM »

Did some more runs on 30f

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to study its AI. This is what I've determined.

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Serela · « **Reply #251 on:** August 10, 2018, 02:58:29 AM »

Corridor flashes aren't as bad when I shrink the window significantly... guess that works enough. Makes it easier to watch a stream in the backround too.

Another idea for a suggestion is...
-Shou's "Bishamonten's Wrath" should not be reset by Shredder

It just takes Shou's one specialty, being a slow-burn character who eventually turns into a juggernaut (if she survives that long...) and wrecks it. Sooo many of the harder bosses have Shredder.

As an aside, Maribel wrecks on the touhou fights with Majesty. If she gets attacked by an enemy with 100% buffs (possible with majesty) she actually can get HEALED by the attack! XD I think it's either a strange interaction with damage reducing effects, or a strange interaction with 100% buffed enemies that have a white buff on as well, where their attack/magic ends up reduced by more than 100% of it's existing value. However, a test on Heavenly Shou shows that the effects of white buffs are not reversed by themselves. In any case, being healed by a boss in normal gameplay is amusing.

DarkAtma · « **Reply #252 on:** August 10, 2018, 03:05:54 AM »

Okay this is my setup to farm on 30F currently,i am the kind of person that prefers finishing thrash in 1 turn

Dragon power Rinnosuke,strategish Komachi,appraiser Shou awakened and holy power flandre everyone equipped with violent green rupee for 12% extra money drop

and of course pumping flandre to the point she outspeeds and kills every possible encounter on the floor on 1 turn,i found shou and aya waiting for a metal kedama too annoying for my peanut brain

Serela · « **Reply #253 on:** August 10, 2018, 03:07:58 AM »

Well hey, that works :V Although kedamas should be pretty common if you go to the specific spots, if you're killing everything in one turn then that's pretty good grinding itself.

DarkAtma · « **Reply #254 on:** August 10, 2018, 03:21:34 AM »

Quote from: Serela on August 10, 2018, 03:07:58 AM

Well hey, that works :V Although kedamas should be pretty common if you go to the specific spots, if you're killing everything in one turn then that's pretty good grinding itself.

Looks like i didnt went to the right ones,now i am seeing them pretty often and even doubles,maybe gonna replace komachi with aya on situations like those for shou

OTHERWISE LEAVETIN WIPING,metal kedamas still outspeed flancakes

Serela · « **Reply #255 on:** August 10, 2018, 11:58:20 AM »

Yeah, metals are crazy fast. Their exp is pretty crazy too though, it's still probably faster to have Aya in there to enable killing 'em. I wonder if a Super Drill could let Flan scratch 'em... well, eventually it would, but might take too many levels .

Validon98 · « **Reply #256 on:** August 10, 2018, 01:18:08 PM »

Metal Kedamas are decent for if you've yet to do the first part of B11F, but the massive swarms of enemies at the second part are much better experience and money, especially once you're able to sweep them easily (which Start of Heavenly Demise is good for). I don't think there's any better place in the dungeon for XP/money at this point than B11F.

Pictured: a typical B11F encounter after you start getting enemy swarms.

Serela · « **Reply #257 on:** August 10, 2018, 01:32:18 PM »

Oh absolutely, b11f > metal kedamas. But you hit 30F at like lv700, so... you need -several- hundred kedama levels to make it to an appropriate 11f mob grind point XD

Meanwhile, slowly, slowly trekking through the corridor... at like 515f now. Honestly, if infinite corridor is supposed to be a thing, my next suggestion would be...
-After 640F, lower the size of Corridor floors and remove flashes from events to make exploration faster.

Also, even with lv2000 bosses, it's extremely evident that status effects.. stop really working. Making status-reliant characters have extremely long-lasting moves like how he buffed Parsee's TRR kind of works, for awhile, but there's too many people to cover... maybe my previous suggestion on Wriggle should just be making her PSN last longer in awakening to counteract rising speed. Too late to add something like "gives you special item that doubles length of everyone's status effects". It'd be pretty good if you got one of those after every loop of corridor or something, but ah well, we'll just have an endgame without statuses other than debuffs.

Monothemeerp · « **Reply #258 on:** August 10, 2018, 04:03:58 PM »

Quote from: Serela on August 09, 2018, 01:11:22 PM

Seriously. Until many late bosses got more resistant, Hina solidly earned a spot in my party purely to land debuffs and swap out. Although honestly, it was bad planning; I swapped her to Herbalist insanely late but I should have been running her as it the whole time just so she had a little more to do. Dead weight on resistant bosses, nothing to do but swap after landing the debuff since it's already so strong... oops :V

Used her up against 9F Tenshi as Hexer with Hexer's conversion. She took zero damage from pretty much all attacks so when she had no debuffing to do she was just solid on the switching job together with Meiling, getting Wriggle/Satori in for poison and Nitori for Iron Mountain Charge. Went pretty smoothly, just had to play patient, that's all.

Remi and Sakuya are up next, though I might have to level a little bit beforehand. Especially considering after that it'll be the dreaded Magatama and Mirror followed by the laughable Tenshi fight. I'd consider my own pace decently fast when it comes to exploring floors and what not, can't wait for when I'm done with main game again though. Really itching to see what Plus has to offer.

DarkAtma · « **Reply #259 on:** August 10, 2018, 04:19:46 PM »

Apparently i can handle B11F mobs now except the giant oni demon (takes 2 turns to kill)

any ways i can increase my front damage with backrow passive effects? would adding patchouli to the backrow help with flandre damage? front row is meiling with dragon god passives,strategist remilia,herbalist aya and gambler flandre

Serela · « **Reply #260 on:** August 10, 2018, 04:25:27 PM »

Backrow Patch will give 5% more damage, whatever that's worth. If you don't particularly want to run Patchy (she's not that amazing) I wouldn't bother, it's a trivial amount. Just overspend on her library, get all the boosts/gems/jewels for her atk/mag if you haven't, and keep grinding up more to raise her ATK. Alternatively replace Aya; a speed-centric Akyuu's boost instead of herbalist boost, or speed-build Sakuya with herbalist for 10% stats. Or Iku's huge atk/mag buff. That does mean you won't outspeed Sirens, though, and Flan has 0 SIL resist... welp. :T Akyuu would cure when she moved, at least.

Quote from: Monothemeerp on August 10, 2018, 04:03:58 PM

Used her up against 9F Tenshi as Hexer with Hexer's conversion. She took zero damage from pretty much all attacks so when she had no debuffing to do she was just solid on the switching job together with Meiling, getting Wriggle/Satori in for poison and Nitori for Iron Mountain Charge. Went pretty smoothly, just had to play patient, that's all.

Hexer's Conversion (as well as debuffed hina in general) is pretty dang strong, but I was opting to just play her normally so I could freely use my multitarget buffs. Conversion is pretty strong if you're willing to run debuffed-Hina build, though! Still... I'd be tempted to make her a Healer or something just so she'd have more to do. Later in the game, at least. Midgame, just being able to survive like a boulder is more than enough.

Monothemeerp · « **Reply #261 on:** August 10, 2018, 05:07:51 PM »

Quote from: Serela on August 10, 2018, 04:25:27 PM

Hexer's Conversion (as well as debuffed hina in general) is pretty dang strong, but I was opting to just play her normally so I could freely use my multitarget buffs. Conversion is pretty strong if you're willing to run debuffed-Hina build, though! Still... I'd be tempted to make her a Healer or something just so she'd have more to do. Later in the game, at least. Midgame, just being able to survive like a boulder is more than enough.

Yeah, I usually run debuffed Hina 'cuz it's easier to set up and it's what I'm used to from Calamity Four, anyway. She's just a remarkable tank and can get in some decent damage too with the right stuff. Dunno how she'll be later but her goofy performance for the main game alone makes me love her. Aside from that, it's also pretty fun to see Nazrin OHKO things - I gave her Sorcerer for more damage and MP and also Aspiration Surge so she can hit four out of eight elements, which overall makes her pretty respectable. Extra Steps' synergy with switching in Instant Attack characters is also pretty darn fun when Nazrin isn't cutting it anymore. I don't even know how many enemy groups I murdered with Nazrin OHKOing someone into Chen cleaning up with Phoenix Spread Wings on 7-9F.

I think I'll try Sakuya and Remi soon to see how that goes. At least after that it's a little calmer with 11F and what not. The early strata really do have a fair few bosses to chew through.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #262 on:** August 10, 2018, 06:44:26 PM »

Got 30f

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down to 13% HP without losing any characters only for

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to ruin things. I'm still working on a better run, but for now I thought I might upload that attempt, because it doesn't just show what I did right, but also what I did wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHO8uWmdCPA

Learning the AI was a big help, but keeping track of what's going to happen next and being ready for it can be tricky, especially when the random elements mess things up.

General_Milky · « **Reply #263 on:** August 10, 2018, 07:21:30 PM »

Almost done with floor 20. Most of the dialogue on this floor is broken. Reimu has untranslated lines after picking up the seals (the line about going back to floor 19) and then most of the dialogue after is untranslated, entering the depths, confronting the final boss, and the ending. I haven't seen the scene introducing Plusdisk, because I haven't actually cleared the floor yet on this file, but I have confirmed the standard ending is untranslated on my old lvl1100 file.

DarkAtma · « **Reply #264 on:** August 10, 2018, 08:50:39 PM »

After replaying the first two floors of LoT1 i am glad LoT2 got random encounter decrease skills (And chen passive) exploration is such a pain with a battle every 10 steps

Serela · « **Reply #265 on:** August 10, 2018, 08:59:53 PM »

Quote from: DarkAtma on August 10, 2018, 08:50:39 PM

After replaying the first two floors of LoT1 i am glad LoT2 got random encounter decrease skills (And chen passive) exploration is such a pain with a battle every 10 steps

Yeahh... I've hit 601F in the corridor, and I can't imagine doing all this without two stacking encounter reduction skills. (Also, ooofffff, that might be enough for today... 100 floors. Only 40 left, though! @.@; )

Rinnie · « **Reply #266 on:** August 10, 2018, 09:26:37 PM »

Quote from: Serela on August 10, 2018, 08:59:53 PM

Yeahh... I've hit 601F in the corridor, and I can't imagine doing all this without two stacking encounter reduction skills. (Also, ooofffff, that might be enough for today... 100 floors. Only 40 left, though! @.@; )

I think that Infinite Corridor wasn't made so you could go through 100 floors in one sitting

Though I must admit, I went through 600 floors in 3 days and I was feeling a bit sick after it XD

Eventually you will reach a point when bosses and encounters will be too hard and experience from B11F will no longer cut it

So you will have to fight something in Infinite Corridor

DarkAtma · « **Reply #267 on:** August 10, 2018, 09:28:57 PM »

Spoiler:

Quote from: Rinnie on August 10, 2018, 09:26:37 PM

I think that Infinite Corridor wasn't made so you could go through 100 floors in one sitting Though I must admit, I went through 600 floors in 3 days and I was feeling a bit sick after it XD

Eventually you will reach a point when bosses and encounters will be too hard and experience from B11F will no longer cut it So you will have to fight something in Infinite Corridor

Then explain the seven star trade item list,some of those need plenty of floors in a row to even consider buying the thing

Rinnie · « **Reply #268 on:** August 10, 2018, 09:47:24 PM »

Quote from: DarkAtma on August 10, 2018, 09:28:57 PM

Then explain the seven star trade item list,some of those need plenty of floors in a row to even consider buying the thing

I don't think you can even see them in price list before beating extremely high level bosses, who are far beyond totally unkillable for people here, you need to be over 10,000 Lv to stand a chance against some of them. In terms of Infinite Corridor power level - it is around 2,500F of IC. This is far beyond what people have here yet.

And after all, you can just save dust, can't you? Or there are some limitations with dust which I am not aware of? At least it will be a good goal (saving dust for those items) while going into extreme depths of IC. At least something to aim for when you are basically done with the game and only IC is left.

Serela · « **Reply #269 on:** August 10, 2018, 10:04:16 PM »

Quote from: Rinnie on August 10, 2018, 09:26:37 PM

I think that Infinite Corridor wasn't made so you could go through 100 floors in one sitting

Well yeah, and that's fair during the normal course of the game. The problem is when literally the only thing left in the game is infinite corridor, and strengthened bosses were put in to account for gameplay outside of the corridor, with tangible rewards, for about two more loops of the thing. The only real content left is doing corridor bosses and out-of-corridor bosses; until you unlock the last item (after your third run of the whole corridor...) there isn't even a reason to chain floors and collect dust! Since if you wanna buy charms and statues, you can absolutely finish before 640f, and probably should whilst it's easy to overgrind.

At which point, taking hours to do any significant number of floors is just a pain (exploration is literally just an obstacle between your scaling refights- it's no longer benefitting clearing the game, which you've already done), and encourages putting the game down instead of actually playing the scaling content. Also, when "you have to fight something in the corridor", you're gonna use the M key, not random encounters while trying to explore. Especially because you'll probably want to find a good exp or money bonus effect, and/or a lucky/risky floor to do it on until you need to refresh your tp/mp. (The encounter reduction is very nice in those floors...)

Also also, you can't really stock dust ahead of time very well. The dust stock maxes at 25%, which is just a consolation prize if you die and lose your chain; it's nowhere near enough to want to use it to save up dust on purpose when you could be buying additional awakening items with dust->infinite gems instead. And as far as buying a bunch of tokugawa statues go, yes, it's intended to play about 50 floors of corridor in one sitting :V Furthermore, once you do get the final stuff, you seriously DO have to play nearly 100 floors at once to afford it. (If you make sure to clear lots of events, you can do it in more like 70, but... yeah, that takes several hours.)

The floors are understandable as-is for the first loop. But it just discourages playing after that. "Ok, my only content left is refights in the corridor, and... exploring it is a pain in the neck and takes forever!"