Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers

[mauve]

i actually felt the deck system completely destroyed any sort of meaningful play diversity.

i mean, look at the decks people actually chose? they were all basically variants on the same thing.

- strong characters chose cards that augmented their strengths
- average characters chose cards that covered their weaknesses
- weak characters chose cards because lol whatever it doesn't even matter

random elements in a fighting game exist to downplay the human element of skill, period, end of story. don't ever think for a second it's anything else. (you can argue that compensating for rng is a skill all itself, but remember that the primary goal is still compressing winrates.)

[OrbOrigin]

I'm definitely hoping that AoCF will be the next big Touhou fighter though ultimately I'm wondering if it can even break the mold of HM/ULiL's engine by being something people actively want to put time into and have some fan made lobby ala Hisoutensoku's Soku Lobby to circumvent the wonky netplay that's oh so wonky in general doujin games.

But who knows with how Soku is it'll REALLY have to prove itself. Which I hope it does cause good grief I really cannot get into Soku anymore and I wanna fight more people in ULiL (PS4 specifically because of all it's beautiful boons)

I hope it's gonna big in some aspect, such as:

1. Character roster. Since AoCF is the continuation of ULiL and LoLK, all characters from the former are (obviously) return for AoCF. Because AoCF sets between LoLK and HSiFS, some characters from LoLK might appear in AoCF. Some new characters will included, both from previous games and newcomers alike. Yes, the latter includes the final boss i.e. the culprit of Perfect Possession incident. I expect about between 13 to 17 new characters will included in this game; some from previous games, some from LoLK and some are newcomers, and as for HM (with Ichirin, Nitori and Koishi) and ULiL (with Kasen and Mokou), expect the unexpected (read: minor) characters will appear in AoCF.

2. The story itself. AoCF might concludes the whole Urban Legend incident with each participants urban legend disappear for good, along with all of Occult Orbs. Although it would pay with a cost of their memories of strings of events from ULiL to AoCF.

[shockdude]

There's nothing inherently floaty about a midair fighter. Tasofro could adjust the physics of AoCF to make it equally as responsive as IaMP or Soku.

They probably won't, though.

[Fluury]

i actually felt the deck system completely destroyed any sort of meaningful play diversity.

i mean, look at the decks people actually chose? they were all basically variants on the same thing.

- strong characters chose cards that augmented their strengths
- average characters chose cards that covered their weaknesses
- weak characters chose cards because lol whatever it doesn't even matter

random elements in a fighting game exist to downplay the human element of skill, period, end of story. don't ever think for a second it's anything else. (you can argue that compensating for rng is a skill all itself, but remember that the primary goal is still compressing winrates.)

Is the Deck System retarded in a competitive scenario? Totally. Randomness has no place in competitive.

On a more casual level, fucking around with a friend? Nope. RNG vs. friends online or local is a lot of fun, especially for these adrenaline pumped moments where you just get that max level card to destroy your buddy. This is also where the card system gives for a lot of variety.

In a perfect world, they'd keep the massive amount of cards and variety, have the RNG stuff *purely optional* in netplay/localplay, and allow you to set the sequence in which what cards are coming to you.

I also wouldn't downplay the card system like that, even in a competitive manner. What you said is true, but one might be able to make specific anti-air decks or something to counter specific opponents rather than going for a generalist deck.

I just dislike there being only a *single* card in ULiL per match.

[PK]

Finally we see something! http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/index.html
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/system.html

Apparently you can choose the team members, although i suppose not in story mode.

[Drake]

In this incident it's two-for-one?

The still-ongoing influence of the urban legends has brought about a new incident.
In this incident two people are one!? In that case, we'll have to resolve it together!

Create the baddest pair using Perfect Possession!

This is an incident where one person will spontaneously change places with somebody else, called "Perfect Possession".
The playable characters are paired up as "Master" and "Slave", and you can manipulate this designation at will.

The player will choose a pair of "Master" and "Slave", and will fight together while switching between each other as a danmaku tag battle.
A Slave can lend the Master her power, occasionally pull her out of a tough spot, and be disposed in times of emergency. Such duels of love, friendship and exploitation will soon unfold.


Note, it isn't particularly clear whether the phrasing for "choose a pair of Master and Slave" implies choosing individually or as a group, and translated it to mimic that ambiguity.

[cuc]

The Master will borrow the Slave's power, and occasionally will get them out of a tough spot.
In times of emergency they are disposable, and a duel with this sort of love, friendship, and cynicism can be unfolded. (Please check this line)

Like Kyouko's interview in Alternative Facts, ブラック is still riffing on ブラック企業 black kigyou, a phrase ZUN has been really into for the recent years. Also these two lines are one sentence. So my hasty rendering as:

A Slave can lend the Master her power, occasionally pull her out of a tough spot, and be disposed in times of emergency. Such duels of love, friendship and exploitation will soon unfold.

[Drake]

Yeah I understood the feeling it was going for, so cynicism still kinda works. Your rearrangement works better though so I'll be borrowing it <3

[cuc]

In case readers misunderstand, "Master" and "Slave" here are English loanwords. They are foremostly intended in the sense of mechanical terminology, similar to the master/slave hard drives in computers. This is a feature of Touhou's danmaku rules: it has inherited the traditional shmup mindset that refers to everything as sci-fi mecha.

E.g. player characters are called 自機 jiki "your own craft", and remaining lives are 残機 zanki "crafts remaining".

I think this English loanword "slave" first appeared in IN, though I may be wrong. In Grimoire of Marisa, Marisa showed an interest in them, and wanted to experiment on improving her own, which resulted in her GFW spell card Magic Bullets "Test Slave".

[Drake]

That being said, the naming is so incidentally perfect of a double-entendre that I can't help but think it's naturally going to become a theme in the fandom

EDIT: Yeah I did mean that it's intentional (not "coincidental", but that the situation fits). It's just too good for this context.

[Suwako Moriya]

So it sounds like it's an assist system rather than a Mavhel tag system? Or am I reading it wrong?

[cuc]

That being said, the naming is so incidentally perfect of a double-entendre that I can't help but think it's naturally going to become a theme in the fandom

Of course it's wholly intentional. Grimoire of Marisa used the kanji word 奴隷 dorei after all.

[Fluury]

Glad there is no awkward ping pong urban legends thing going on anymore, although I really hope you wont constantly have your "slave" on screen, imagine the visual clutter.

[PapilLionesskort]

It sounds a whole lot like Mystical Chain to me. It may involve both assists and tag-teaming. (Of course, also like Skullgirls, potentially.)

[Suwako Moriya]

Glad there is no awkward ping pong urban legends thing going on anymore, although I really hope you wont constantly have your "slave" on screen, imagine the visual clutter.

Reisen (Mokou's assist) isn't on-screen in that screenshot, so I can't imagine this will be an issue.

[cuc]

Create the unluckiest pair using Perfect Possession!
^{[Here "unluckiest" (最凶) is a homonym for "strongest" (最強)]}

Actually 凶 here doesn't mean "bad luck", but 凶悪 - "vicious, threatening".  Apparently using it as a pun on "strongest" is an established manga copy-writing cliche. You can translate it as, say, "baddest", "most brutal".

[Drake]

It sounds a whole lot like Mystical Chain to me. It may involve both assists and tag-teaming. (Of course, also like Skullgirls, potentially.)

That is what it seems to be. In the screenshot Reimu has activated Perfect Possession with Marisa, and they are using both Musou Fuuin and Master Spark.

although I really hope you wont constantly have your "slave" on screen, imagine the visual clutter.

Reisen isn't on screen, so assumedly not. Marisa is the Slave there.

Actually 凶 here doesn't mean "bad luck", but 凶悪 - threatening.  Apparently using it as a pun on "strongest" is an established manga copy-writing cliche. You can translate it as, say, "baddest", "most brutal".

I was just pointed this out elsewhere. I considered "most fearsome" but "baddest" is funny so I'll use that.

[cuc]

I was just pointed this out elsewhere. I considered "most fearsome" but "baddest" is funny so I'll use that.

ZUN just made a tweet using the tagline of 最凶の二人を選ぼうぜ！ "Choose the baddest duo!"

I'm getting the feeling there really is a hidden sense of "unlucky" here.

[Drake]

I first used unlucky as though 最凶 were an omikuji reading and also to reflect the synopsis' usage of "the bittersweet story of those that think they're the strongest duo". It'll be interesting if that assessment actually turns out to be the case.

[jhun]

If this is some kind of supporting mechanic, that would be awesome. Kek, I'm gonna pair up with my mains, Kokoro and Mokou.

And about ZUN's tweet, my bing translation says something about "choose the two evil" or something like that.

[Drake]

bing is bad

[jhun]

bing is bad

Exactly. But it's kinda, at the very least, close to the translations everyone has presented so far, like...

Actually 凶 here doesn't mean "bad luck", but 凶悪 - threatening.  Apparently using it as a pun on "strongest" is an established manga copy-writing cliche. You can translate it as, say, "baddest", "most brutal".

But hey, there are a lot of possibilities though.

[~Shin Kuroi~]

ohhh ! omoshiroi... !!!

this reminds me of the shikigami-system from the Toho Rpg, "Devil of Decline"!

i'm excited for this turnout! 5/7, full speed aheaaaad..... !

[Tsalop]

Poor Reisen, she has barely recovered from being shipped with the obsessive widow from the Moon and now she is going to become Mokous plaything.

Anyway the pairing system sounds interesting and I really hope they will bring back some older characters to expand the roster...
Though most likely in the initial version we only have the characters that has been introduced in the previous two fighters.

[Gpop]

So it sounds like it's an assist system rather than a Mavhel tag system? Or am I reading it wrong?

I don't think so, due to the following line:

The player will choose a pair of "Master" and "Slave", and will fight together while switching between each other as a danmaku tag battle.

Unless this is mistranslated, we can switch between the two characters.

Glad there is no awkward ping pong urban legends thing going on anymore, although I really hope you wont constantly have your "slave" on screen, imagine the visual clutter.

Was this confirmed? I mean I'd be really happy if this is the case because the "smash ball" type occult system was something I hated the most about it.

[jhun]

Hey guys. So as obvious that it could seem, there are two spellcards combined for an attack. So I've been wondering which spellcards would be dang OP. Unless if I'm wrong then you can ignore this.

[CyberAngel]

Not to be a party pooper, but spellcards were quite the screen fillers by themselves, so I feel that having two fired off at the same time will be MUGEN-level ridiculous.

[Spotty Len]

Oh man, Tag Combos, I was really hoping those would happen. Please don't screw this up, Tasofro.

Was this confirmed? I mean I'd be really happy if this is the case because the "smash ball" type occult system was something I hated the most about it.

There doesn't seem to be a gauge about it, so I'm guessing those won't appear anymore.

Not to be a party pooper, but spellcards were quite the screen fillers by themselves, so I feel that having two fired off at the same time will be MUGEN-level ridiculous.

Can't be worse than Marvel vs Capcom 3.

[Flandre5carlet]

The tag system looks to me similar to the system used Marvel. Partner can be brought as an assist, for a group super or tagged with for tag combos.

[mauve]

Yeah, I'd go with Baddest Duo myself too. 最凶 would be, like, a thing that you meet that would be the worst possible luck to do so, and since it'd be pronounced the same as Saikyou(最強)/Strongest, it gets used in manga a fair bit for exactly the reasons you'd expect.

So what they're saying is, you should pick a top tier when this comes out. Canon.

i swear if they add cirno to this game too i'm going to be so mad