Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!

[FinnKaenbyou]

That's simply how this round works. Move along, we aren't telling.

T_T

Crying moe will NOT work, Rou

[Serp]

Sodium is apparently scumhunting.  I don't find any flaws in his reasoning so far, and what little of Xan's conduct there was on D1 wasn't really scummy in my view.  I was keeping my vote on him to wait for Alice and Kerigis to show up and post, since a prod on either of them wouldn't have really been useful.

##Unvote

Alice's wall gives us a bunch of relevant opinions, which is as good as we can expect from someone who was gone for the whole day.  I don't like the fact that he got to watch the whole day play out before giving his stances on anything, but what can you do?  Here's what stands out to me:

Some of his other actions, like voting me without much reasoning, or his move to Serp after this for...uh, very questionable reasons, are bad, and I'm not sure about his reasoning on Nietz (slaps down 3 cases on Nietz, Carthrat and Xan, all 3 of which have weak reasoning, proceeds to vote the one most likely to get lynched), but I can't see him being scum at this point due to him not jumping onto the Moonspeak wagon.

This is the second time someone has raised avoiding the Moonspeak wagon as being some sort of meaningful towntell - and this time, it's coming from someone who jumped on the wagon early himself!  Alice, can you explain why avoiding contributing to a mislynch that was virtually guaranteed to go through anyway is a good enough towntell to bump Zakeri below Nietz in your eyes?

Anyway, the reason why I haven't really been convinced about the Zakeri case is that in his 72, just before he placed his vote on me, he said "Yes, we get it, it was the only thing you could do that looked pro-town. That was back then, though, what about now?"  It was nothing more than a prod for me to move on past Alice and see who was worst among those responding to my initial case.  Not a very useful vote, but he wasn't being inconsistent when he unvoted me.  The coaching stuff was also relevant since there had been some fingers of suspicion raised about coaching Moonspeak.  I don't like writing defenses of other people, but we need to settle on our lynch for today, and I haven't seen anything overtly scummy in Zakeri's posting since then.

This business with Nietz sucks on several levels.  He's basically throwing his hands up and leaving.  Could be a desperate stunt by scum to avoid a lynch.  As for his roleclaim, I'm not sure what to make of it.  I'm not sure why he claimed when he did, and the lack of a second kill last night means it's a pretty safe claim for scum.  Also note the lack of a selfvote despite claiming that "the best thing town could do is let me die today" means he's either exaggerating or he's trying really hard to look like he doesn't care whether he lives or dies.  I'm leaning towards the latter.

##Vote Nietz  (L-1)

Kerigis's post isn't useful at all, except as a confirmation that he's kind of present.  I'm really hoping that he shows up to give his opinions on all the main cases before the deadline.  Considering Jan-san's D1 conduct and all the weird statements others have made about him, I'm fine with Kerigis as a lynch if Nietz suddenly shapes up and Kerigis fails to put out any real opinions before the deadline.

Oh, incidentally, when thinking on the role name "Metal Mixer" just now, I realized that it might mean Bus Driver, but considering that this game is called Touhou Remix, maybe I shouldn't put too much stock in a role name having "mix" somewhere in it.

[Kerigis]

Okay, I really I'm going to type this very quickly, since I am not supposed to be using the computer from my uni to do this. I should be programming. Also, I think I've learned that, at least for me, hopping on a game is not very good for me as I can't concentrate really well. So, in any case, I'm gonna extend my recap.

To me, Serp kicking the ball was a ":/" moment to me.  Nothing of that accusation is really well there as is just a call on not random voting or how the game should be played. Not really worth going in circles for that.

Let me explain my reasoning a little more fully.  As I see it, everyone has a duty to put a RVS post out there for others to analyze, for what little it's worth, as soon as they see that the game has started.

This is just pulling the strings too much.

As well as the Tenshi/Moonspeak Wagon, I've gotta be honest here, I would've ended up jumping on it too if I were playing. Although it would be, to me at least, more like treating Moonspeak as the sacrificial lamb to see who is sneering at the ritual. I like how Kiro still mantained focus on Serp, despite how bad Tenshi looked. Alice's switch was triggered by that... nonsense vote.

Nietz kicked off judging things because of previous game happenings which I don't really like. And, well, practically gave up.

Stuff happened because of the replacements, which stirred some unease among the people.

All-in-all, that's how I see it right now. I have some doubts about Serp for the thing early.

And okay, I can hammer if you want. How much time left?

[Suwako Moriya]

Deadline's in about 40 minutes.

I have nothing particularly new to add, aside from a hope that we see a lot more from Kerigis, Alice, Sodium and Affinity on Day 3.

Wrong. Deadline in an hour and a half. I'll post a votecount or something like that...

At the day's end.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Agh, whatever. No matter what I think about, it all comes down to either Zakeri or NEETz.

@Serp: simply because it's something vaguely unexpected of a scum to do. In retrospect, at the time of Zak's post it wasn't AS likely that Moonspeak was virtually guaranteed to...yeah no whatever. It's not a big point in his favour on second though.

Actually would prefer a Zakeri lynch at the moment, though I am perfectly fine with hammering NEETz. Will be around during deadline to do so, if needed.

[UncertainJakutten]

This is a lazy here's where you stand votecount:

Nietz is at L-1
Alice is at L-4

Alice and Keri aren't voting.
Deadline is in an hour and a half.

[UncertainJakutten]

24 minutes. Do you all enjoy wasting your last hour or something?

[Kiro]

Shut it mod.

Waiting to see if Nietz will post any last thoughts or not.

In the meanwhile, go prep your phase change post so we get instant gratification at 10:01 PM EST.

I've had everything except flavor prepped since 8:45. I always do flavor on the fly =^-^=

[WHMZakeri]

...nope, I've got nothing.

[UncertainJakutten]

The Twelth "End of Day 2" Vote Count

U.N Owen was Her?

Roukanken (0)
Affinity (0)
Nietz (5): Roukanken, Zakeri, Suwako Moriya, Sodium, Serpentarius
Suwako Moriya (0)
EX Na2O2 (0):
Kiro (0)
Zakeri (1): Nietz
Serpentarius (0)
Alice (2): Kiro, Affinity
Kerigis (0)

Not Voting (2): Alice, Kerigis

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch
Nietz has been lynched by default with 5 votes.

Deadline is NOW. Sucks, ne?

[UncertainJakutten]

Deadline shut up!

[UncertainJakutten]

As another day passes in your alternate versiness of universeness space, I finally return from the dealers room.

Me: Nyaa~ I found this really cute dress in the dealers room! I'm sure it'll go with almost ANYTHING I could wear...oh, did you all decide who's soul I get today?

ZUN: Um...kinda. Most of us want Nietz to die, but we don't really have a majority...

Me: Ah well, that's fine. So, have you all lynched him yet?

ZUN: Um...no

Me: That's ok! I'll just take care of that.

And I do...though it smells a little like a barbecue now.

Me: Well, blowing up a couple souls attached to him certainly took care of that!

ZUN: um...you really shouldn't be able to interact with the real world like that.

Me: Nyaa~

So...let's see...Nietz was...

Nietz, Xepher Cradle, Townie Neoclassical Psychologist, and he's been lynched.

Sorry, ZUN, doesn't look like he stole your music!

Deadline for night actions is between 24 and 48 hours from now. Have fun
Oh yeah, send em to Unesco.

[Unesco]

Nyaaaaaaawn~

Ah, it would appear that it's day again. And apparently there are only 8 of you left. And...ZUN? ZUN isn't here!? That's bad! Oh no! What will we do-

* Unesco is interrupted by a loud drunken burp

ZUN: Shorry I'm late!

Me: ZUN! You worried me! If I took your soul I'd probably be drunk for at least 100 years or so.

ZUN: Your a fis-fin-figment of my imashinatshun. Yoo can't get drunk!

Me: Whatever. Anyway it looks like no one died last night.

* Unesco says this with a VERY disappointed look on her face. Even the ears are drooping

ZUN: All the better! We can bring thoshe crimnalsh that shtoleded my mushic to jushtish...or shomething...I needsh a drink.

Me: Um...you could probably do that anyway...and I don't think you need anymore...

ZUN: Ah...shush up you imashinuryial cat!

Me: Well...anyway...

That's how it seems. No one died last night, so I guess you all should get back to killing each other. I'll get a soul out of this somehow!


NO ONE DIED LAST NIGHT. D2 START!

[Unesco]

The Thirteenth "Start of Day 3" Vote Count

Overdrive

Roukanken (0)
Affinity (0)
Suwako Moriya (0)
EX Na2O2 (0)
Kiro (0)
Zakeri (0)
Serpentarius (0)
Alice (0)
Kerigis (0)

Not Voting ⑨: Alice, Kerigis, Serpentarius, Zakeri, Kiro, EX Na2O2, Suwako Moriya, Affinity, Roukanken

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in 72 hours at 1:00 PM EST on Sunday, August 16.

[Suwako Moriya]

Well, that answers my question about NK survival PMs. I got attacked last night.

##Vote: EX Na2O2 for being the swing vote to secure the Nietz lynch over a potential Alice lynch with some fairly weak reasoning. This is on top of everything Xan did(n't) do, as well as all the questioning with very little opinioning Sodium did after he entered the game.

[Sodium]

Well, that answers my question about NK survival PMs. I got attacked last night.

Hm? Explain.

I took off my Alice vote because he finally posted something of worth. I also didn't really find anything disagreeable, minus the whole "Nietz is not my first vote target" and then putting Nietz first in his suspicions list. Meanwhile, Nietz was pretty bad throughout Day 1 and 2, and I didn't like the Zakeri case that much after thinking about it for a while.

While I didn't really have a solid stance when I had just replaced Xan, almost half the players weren't active, so there wasn't much I could say except "HE/SHE'S LURKING!" and there were also some players who I thought were town, so I didn't need to say anything about those people. I also couldn't add anything to the Nietz or Zakeri case at the time, so yeah.

Well, I'm currently suspicious of Kerigis for his IIoA posts, and lacking any real opinion. Jan-san doing very little doesn't exactly help either. I am slightly lenient on the lack of opinion, because replacing someone is usually hard, especially the "catch up" posts. I'd like your opinion on who you think are scum now though.

Then there's Alice who finally posted, but I'd like to see a lot more from him. I doubt anyone will find it acceptable if he continues his current level of activity. Lurking may be his meta, but disappearing for most of the day is not good. Basically: MOAR PLS.

Affinity is also weird for dropping in near the end of the day and plopping a vote onto the Alice mini-wagon, when it was gathering steam. Seemed opportunistic to me, and his general behavior this game has been to pop in and give vague opinions. Didn't say anything after Alice's post, but he did say he was going to be away and not make it to the deadline. I'd like to know your current thoughts on Alice.

Not putting down a vote yet, as I wish to wait for more from Alice and Kerigis, and Affinity to answer my request of his thoughts on Alice.

[Sodium]

EBWOP: Seeing as this is a touhou board, and UFO and SWR expansion(and other things) are coming out within 48 hours, I'd like to ask everyone if and how said releases(and more) would affect their activity in the game. I know that they'll probably affect my posting here for a day or two, so yeah.

UFOs coming out now!? YAY! I shall have to piratize this I mean legally buy like a productive citizen UFO...yeeeeaaaaaah....

Um, I'll extend prod worthy inactivity to 36 hours in light of this

[FinnKaenbyou]

Want to see a fullclaim from Suwako, since he's just about claimed BP. Admittedly the claim will need to be taken with a pinch of salt, since I'm not seeing a rule saying that scum can't choose not to NK.

Anywho, after a re-read I'm somewhat offput by Affinity. His D2 posts can be summarised as thus:
"I'm suspicious of the two inactives who will eventually get replaced. Also I definitely didn't have anything to do with yesterday's lynch."
"I don't think Zak is scummy. Would like to see Nietz and Xan vote." Note that he conveniently didn't mention Jan-san despite being at least as bad a lurker as Xan was.
"Fine with Suwako questioning Serp, unvote because appasrently not voting anyone generates conversation. Sudden RAGE at Jan-san dropping out."
"I wish Alice and Kerigis had posted. Meanwhile I'm most suspicious of Nietz with Zakeri second."
"Despite my previous statement, I'm going to vote Alice anyway since it's 'safer'. Suddenly I'm convinced that lynching Nietz is a BAD idea."

So yeah, his tip-toeing around the two lynches and his strange ability to forget/disregard Kerigis-san are making me uncomfortable.

##Vote: Affinity

I don't think C76 will hold me up that much, though I think it is only safe to take an extension or something.

[Suwako Moriya]

@Sodium: read

@Roukanken: Why should I roleclaim? There are a couple ways I could have survived that NK, and I see no reason to tell everyone if I know why I survived or not. It'll just give scum extra information.

[FinnKaenbyou]

@Roukanken: Why should I roleclaim? There are a couple ways I could have survived that NK, and I see no reason to tell everyone if I know why I survived or not. It'll just give scum extra information.

Touche. I suppose I wasn't thinking hard enough on this one. Apologies.

[Kiro]

@Mod: Can you clarify if rule #7 has "night actions" also applying to Scum Night Kills?

Um...I think it's pretty self evident that ANY night action will be randomized. If it's done at night, and I get no direction, well, quite obviously it will be randomized

I can agree with Suwako's case on Xan/Sodium. Sodium didn't vote when he replaced in and he hasn't voted in Day 3. For posting a lot, you're not very firm about your opinions. In Day 2, he eventually votes Alice, but only to prod him (you even point out that Alice is not needing of a prod yet in #186, and actually prod him in #204), because he unvotes Alice after Alice posts and finally decides then that Nietz is a better case.

Well, I'm removing my Alice vote as he's finally posted, and I don't really see Nietz's case on Alice. I also no longer think that the Zakeri case is viable at this point in time(both in reasoning and number of votes), so that leaves Nietz. I agree with the case on him(lack of anything early day 1, jumping onto Tenshi wagon, etc), and his roleclaim isn't believable, in my opinion. If he DOES flip what he said he is, then it means that there's a good chance that there's a SK(or that Unesco is screwing with us, VERY MUCH).

Why does it seem like you're saying that "Nietz's case on Alice" being bad is what convinces you that Alice is ok? I had a case on Alice as well and you don't seem to take that into consideration. The Alice and Nietz bandwagons were equal at the time, but you never bothered to consider that Alice could be a viable lynch, even when you mentioned that the Zakeri case was not viable due to reasoning and number of votes. But you don't treat the Alice bandwagon the same way which I find to be strangely selective thinking. Suwako has already mentioned the point that you were the shifting force into the Nietz mislynch.

---

Alice: You put Nietz at the top of your list but when Nietz is at L-1, you say you would prefer a Zakeri lynch? What the heck is this? Explain please. Can't even tell of this is a backtrack because you had no vote in Day 2... this is becoming a familiar theme.

---

Rou: Your first link there is misleading. He and nobody else knew at the time the lurkers were going to get replaced. 2nd link, you're neglecting the fact that he voted Xan in the first one. There's less of a need to mention that Jan-san is as bad of a lurker as Xan is when he's already got a vote on Xan. And in your last link, you state Affinity is "convinced" that lynching Nietz is a bad idea. That's not what he said, that's pretty bad misrep.

The tiptoeing around the 2 lynches is also not a scumtell. And the disregarding of Kerigis-san is presuming that he could be Scum and should be noted. Now, let's do a quick comparison. I avoided both lynches as well and stated that I think Jan-san/Kerigis is probably Town. Objectively, doesn't that make me worse than him? And you don't mention or vote me at all.

I think your reasoning on your Affinity case mostly sucks and I'm bumping you way up on the suspicion list. The Xan case is a decent one and Affinity had a vote on that for awhile. The vote on Alice is the only thing that is reasonably suspicious, but I find it a bit of a null at the moment due to the circumstances of Alice's absence.

Going to vote you to highlight this particular case. As part of the issue I had with Zakeri being a distraction in Day 1 was due to Roukan arguing with him point for point in both Day 1 and Day 2, I think my case on Zakeri is not as good anymore. In particular, some of the points you presented like "school of hard knocks," and your one sarcastic point exacerbated the conversation and I can get the feeling you were egging Zakeri on.

##Vote Roukanken

[FinnKaenbyou]

Rou: Your first link there is misleading. He and nobody else knew at the time the lurkers were going to get replaced.

Scum don't know or care about that, but the fact is that scum can abuse lurkers and use them as valid reasons for mislynches

2nd link, you're neglecting the fact that he voted Xan in the first one. There's less of a need to mention that Jan-san is as bad of a lurker as Xan is when he's already got a vote on Xan.

Why is Xan worthy of his suspicion, and not Jan-san? He explicitly calls out Xan for lurking, but lets Jan away with doing the same thing. That's what my problem is.

And in your last link, you state Affinity is "convinced" that lynching Nietz is a bad idea. That's not what he said, that's pretty bad misrep.

The fact is he jumped from 'Nietz is the scummiest player around right now' to 'I'm wary of lynching Nietz' with no new posts from Nietz inbetween. Why?

The tiptoeing around the 2 lynches is also not a scumtell. And the disregarding of Kerigis-san is presuming that he could be Scum and should be noted.

I am suspicious of Kerigis-san given that Jan posted nothing of use and all Kerigis has done is spout IIoA since the replacement.
And the explicitly mentioning 'Hey guys this is why I wasn't on the Tenshi wagon' felt sort of pointless.

Now, let's do a quick comparison. I avoided both lynches as well and stated that I think Jan-san/Kerigis is probably Town. Objectively, doesn't that make me worse than him? And you don't mention or vote me at all.

Were you supporting the Nietz lynch through everything except a vote before suddenly turning on someone else at the last minute? Because that's what Affinity was doing.

[FinnKaenbyou]

EBWOP: The misrep with 'wary of lynching Nietz' was a matter of misinterpreting word choice, but still it's a large jump to make from 'I think he's the scummiest around right now' to 'I'm really uncertain about voting him'.

[Serp]

Well, that answers my question about NK survival PMs. I got attacked last night.

##Vote: EX Na2O2 for being the swing vote to secure the Nietz lynch over a potential Alice lynch with some fairly weak reasoning. This is on top of everything Xan did(n't) do, as well as all the questioning with very little opinioning Sodium did after he entered the game.

Was the Alice wagon really viable when Sodium made that vote?  The votes on Alice were pretty much just prods to show up and post something, and after he did, no one else seemed to find his post voteworthy.

##Vote Kerigis

I'm unsatisfied with the lack of any definite, relevant stances from Kerigis, and it also seems like he's still stuck analyzing early D1.  His play, together with Jan-san's, looks scummiest to me.  I don't want to let Janigis-san slip below the radar again.

[Sodium]

My ONLY point in voting Alice was because he was lurker supreme(well, that and Kerigis, but I disgress), and so I voted to prod. Alice then posted, and because I didn't like Nietz's or anyone else's case on Alice afterwords, I had no reason to vote Alice. Also, I was assuming that the others voting Alice would end up removing their votes, as I felt that they were also prods.

Next, I evaluated the two other main cases that had any chance of actually resulting in a lynch, and found that I thought Zakeri's case was weaker then Nietz's, so I voted Nietz. Also, Zakeri had a single vote on him too, so me voting Zakeri would've had almost no effect. Afterwords, Nietz posted his last post, that was basically him saying "Just lynch me".

Oh, and apparently, all the Touhou stuff at C76 will come at Saturday Night/Sunday Morning(as in, it'll be available on the tubes), so the day should end around then, unless we get an EXTEND. So yeah. Shouldn't affect the game too much, hopefully.

Oh good. Maybe Orin will find that cute pair of human ears . (I WISH I could go to comiket, lol)

[Affinity]

I was targeted by a post restriction last night, which happens to be having to post nuclear explosions every post I make, as I get something about Utusho stuck in my head.  So I'm sorry for any distractions.  I don't know if the culprit was mafia or town, but probably the earlier, I think.

In any case...

---

@Roukanken:

Firstly, I needed to explain as to why I wasn't on the bandwagon on Tenshi D1; since he posted new posts that I did not see beforehand.

Secondly, I hate a vote over Xan for D1; he did not answer Carthrat's question and instead pressed on with Tenshi, making his vote opportunistic.  As you can see rather plainly, Jan-san was only lurking while Xan was both lurking and having this pinned upon him, so yes, misrep once again is horrible.  Jan-san was out of the ballpark for all practical matters, and wasn't worth considering.

Thirdly, again, blatant misrep.  Case on Xan disappeared because he was replaced, for one.  Had to stand back and await more comments, and I didn't vote Nietz, making it consistent with the next point; after all, I didn't want to prop him too close to L-1.  Nowhere in that post did I say that Nietz was the best lynch; I merely said that some of his actions were questionable, slightly more so than Zakeri.  In short, questionable =/= surefiringly scummy.

---

And to answer Sodium's question, I voted Alice because he simply hasn't posted throughout the day, and due to reasons like meta and such, I thought this was dangerous.  Lack of opinions on D2 is more potentially scummy than the avid responses Nietz and Zakeri were giving.  Thus, I didn't feel that Nietz was scummy enough to warrant a vote a vote over him.  It would also take sometime for a modkill. 

But Alice's last post is satisfactory, since he has labeled his thought processes clearly and such.  While not posting anything very original, it's a good enough substitute for his absence for the rest of the day.  If I were there, I would have voted Nietz.

---

So yes, I do share Kiro's sentiment that this accusation is rather clumsy.  However, while this line is weird, it's still an original case, which is more than can be said for people like Kerigis, who is fulfilling his reporter-style meta.  There wasn't much opinion in his second post, more of hypotheticals and such about earlier-bandwagons than anything else.  His vote today is important.

##Vote: Kerigis

[FinnKaenbyou]

Okay, here's where I reach a point which classically I've always had a problem with - when my case is summarily taken apart piece by piece, what do I do? On one hand maintaining the attack is at best tunnelling and at worst plain personal attack, but on the other hand switching makes me look floaty and inconsistent, so really the best plan is probably just to never be wrong in the slightest.

This is seriously a point that basically gives me an aneurysm every time it comes up in a game, a real 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. It probably doesn't help that right now it's 2am and I'm only semi-conscious.

So as bad as this makes me look, I'm going to have to ##Unvote. I suppose I was paranoid about Affinity given that just about nobody had talked about him for the entirety of the game, and from them on I was convinced he was scum until I got proven kind of wrong. -_-

Time to switch to the secondary suspect I should've put first. ##Vote Kerigis (L-2)
I need to stop trying so hard to look for enemies that aren't there. Sometimes blatant IIoA, actual lurking (looking here Kerigis was on after the phase change but never bothered to post) and replacing a massive lurker who threw iffy votes all over the place isn't too obvious to be a Mafioso. -_-

Still waiting on posts today from Kerigis, Alice and Zak, IIRC.

[Suwako Moriya]

Was the Alice wagon really viable when Sodium made that vote?  The votes on Alice were pretty much just prods to show up and post something, and after he did, no one else seemed to find his post voteworthy.

I do believe it was viable, yes, largely for reasons Kiro laid out throughout the day and Affinity gave near the end. And, as other people stated, his saying Nietz was at the top of his scum list without throwing a vote down on the guy was odd. Rampant inactivity wasn't Alice's only crime.

Also, Zakeri had a single vote on him too, so me voting Zakeri would've had almost no effect.

If you want to say you thought the Nietz case was better, then okay, but don't try to hide behind this excuse. Unvoting Alice and voting Zakeri would have put Nietz/Alice/Zakeri at 3/2/2, which would not at all have been a foregone Nietz lynch conclusion.

[Unesco]

The Fourteenth "Give me a Song!" Vote Count

シンデレラケージ　～ Kagome-Kagome

Roukanken (1): Kiro
Affinity (0)
Suwako Moriya (0)
EX Na2O2 (1): Suwako Moriya
Kiro (0)
Zakeri (0)
Serpentarius (0)
Alice (0)
Kerigis (3): Serpentarius, Affinity, Roukanken

Not Voting (4): Alice, Kerigis, Zakeri, EX Na2O2

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in 56 hours at 1:00 PM EST on Sunday, August 16.

[Suwako Moriya]

Cool zeroes, bro.

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